Friday, August 09, 2013

More Cheaters

Alex Rodriguez


Cheater #1 - Alex Rodriguez, a baseball player, was penalized by Major League Baseball this week for use and possession of banned performance-enhancing substances, including testosterone and human growth hormone, and for engaging in a course of conduct intended to obstruct or frustrate the investigation into the matter.

Penalty - suspension for 211 games (through to the end of 2014.)






Larry Ellison


Cheater #2 - Oracle Team USA, a sailing team owned by Larry Ellison, was found guilty this week of cheating by illegally modifying their AC45 catamarans used in the America's Cup World Series. See video about the cheating.

What do you think the penalty should be for Oracle Team USA's cheating?

How about a suspension for the team for a certain number of "games"?

It doesn't even have to be as draconian as the 211 games that Alex Rodriguez was hit with.

It seems to me that a reasonable penalty would be to suspend the team for their next 17 scheduled races or 9 days of racing, which would only be to the end of next month.

Wouldn't that be fair?

What do you think?


22 comments:

Pat said...

Oracle claims the mods didn't affect performance, yet were serious enough that they forfeited races. So, when will we know just what the mods were so we can judge for ourselves? And, just maybe, the Cup is headed for Kiwiland where a bit more balance between tradition and innovation can be restored.

Tillerman said...

Apparently lead weights were discovered in the king posts (sometimes called dolphin strikers) of three AC45s (the two used by Oracle and the the one used by Ben Ainslie Racing which was prepared for them by Oracle.) And the rules specifically prohibit modifying this component. One wonders why lead weights were hidden in the boats in this way if it wasn't thought that they would have some kind of positive impact? The video in my link shows you exactly where the lead was discovered.

The text of the protest by the Regatta Director has now been released and is here/

Tillerman said...

I wrote this post originally without doing much research and with my usual casual disregard for any facts other than those gleaned from a few minutes of web browsing.

However, I see that the protest says that the jury is conducting an investigation under America's Cup Protocol Article 60. This article basically says that nobody associated with any team should do anything on or off the water "that is prejudicial or detrimental to or against the welfare or the best interests of the America’s Cup, or the sport of sailing, or that may impair public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of the America’s Cup."

Penalties that can be imposed for a breach of Article 60 are specified in Article 15.4(d). Those penalties include ...

(vi) disqualify a Competitor from any race, series or the Event;

(viii) to order the suspension or expulsion of any individual from the Event.

So my scenario would be entirely possible within the rules for the AC (although, I concede, not likely.)

forgetful said...

Hey, where did I leave that hammer? I had it a minute ago...

I don't see how only cheating a little bit is any different than a lot. They may well have done as much as they felt they could get away with. If you go too far, you always get caught, just ask Rosie Ruiz.

It will be interesting to see if they can determine who done it (or who falls on his sword for the team).

Tillerman said...

I think I might have accidentally deleted a comment in this thread. I was deleting a "stub" comment that is still left after an author deletes his own comment, and I think two comments disappeared rather than one. And reading forgetful's comment suggests that someone had made a prior comment that this was only a very small bit of cheating?

Anyway, if your comment has disappeared, please resubmit it. I am not trying to censor any point of view on this issue.

Tillerman said...

I suspect that they will be able to find out very easily which worker or workers physically put the lead in the king posts. The question will be how high up the hierarchy this goes. Who gave the instructions and who else knew about it?

Luke said...

I'm baaaack

Originally I too considered it cheating, but the facts are its only 2.3kg or 5lb of lead. If they wanted to cheat, they'd try to gain a benefit. 2.3kg isn't going to give you any benefit.

They are guilty of employing some dunces who either didn't know it was a problem or didn't remove it after testing.

I'd caution all those citing outrage to make sure they have never inadvertently made a similar error. I know I have. Anyone else put tape in their centreboard box to stop it wearing out? Etc etc

Tillerman said...

Thanks Luke for reposting your comment. Now I can have a good argument with you.

It does seem like a very small weight for such a large heavy boat. I agree.

But the rules specifically say that the king post cannot be modified.

So if they modified it for "testing" what were they trying to test? Whether adding weight to the king post helped with performance? What else would be the reason?

And if it was only for "testing" then why did they need to "test" it on all three boats that were racing in the America's Cup World Series? I might buy the "only testing" theory if they modified one boat and then did some testing against a second boat. But when they modify all three race boats there's something about the "testing" theory that doesn't pass the smell test.

I guess my attitude on this is covered by 30+ years in the Laser class. No, I never have put tape in the centerboard box to stop it wearing out. (Even though, within limits, that is legal now.) I have never knowingly infringed the class measurement rules, except to use a "practice sail" for fleet racing when a fleet has specifically announced that they will allow that option.

Luke said...

I suppose I am drawing a distinction between rule breakers and cheats. Yes oracle are rule breakers, probably stupid rule breakers, but its harsh to call them cheats.

I have no idea why you would add lead to a dolphin striker; lead won't make it stronger. The weight is too little to have any impact on trim. If the boat was underweight, the dolphin striker would be a good place to add lead needed to bring it up to minimum weight.

Stupid for doing it? Yes. Stupid for not locating the lead earlier? Yes. Stupid in the way it's been handled? Yes. Cheats? Maybe. But not because of this incident.

As an Aussie, I'm supporting Team NZ

Tillerman said...

Good point. I think I wrote a post on the distinction between rule breakers and cheats a while back. I guess you're only cheating if you deliberately break the rules with the intention of gaining some advantage. Racing sailors break the rules all the time unintentionally - hitting a mark, crossing too close on port tack, not giving room at a mark.

I guess time will tell what actually happened here. But, Luke, it was Grant Dalton of Team NZ who described this (on the video in the link) as "a deliberate intent to circumvent the rule... that's cheating... as bad as it gets." Of course he's not exactly neutral in the matter. But he's not just some random old geezer blogger using the C word either.

Tillerman said...

And I see that respected America's Cup historian Bob Fisher is also calling this "cheating."

Luke said...

I hope the kiwi glass house is sound.......

Tillerman said...

Good point. If this turns out to be some honest but dumb mistake by Oracle as you suggest Luke, then Grant Dalton's accusation of "cheating" might itself be the subject of an Article 60 hearing as something that was "prejudicial or detrimental to or against the welfare or the best interests of the America’s Cup."

Tweezerman said...

And how the heck were you able to presage this story with your post of Kaiser Wilhelm and the faux gold trophy? Inside information or kismet? Inquiring minds want to know!

O Docker said...

It wasn't for going too far.

Rosie Ruiz was caught for not going far enough.

Pandabonium said...

I say removal of his bollock blocks. (Of course, "bollock blocks" meaning the two blocks in the middle of a topsail yard of square rigged vessel, used in hoisting.) Aye, he should be hoisted by his bollock blocks. Experimentally of course, with an added 5 lbs of lead.

Tillerman said...

Great question. Sometimes this blog does seem to foretell the future. I have no idea why. How unlikely it is that cheating would be discovered in the America's Cup?

Tillerman said...

Excellent idea Panda. But I fear this will not be happen. Amazingly, the writers of the Protocol Governing the 34th America's Cup, in a stunning oversight, seem to have failed to include this as one of the sanctions that can be imposed by the International Jury as defined in Section 15.4(d).

Pandabonium said...

All these nit picking rules make a mockery of the common law. As Sean Connery's character Colonel Arbuthnott said in the 1974 movie version of "Murder on the Orient Express": "Trial by twelve good men and true... is a sound system."

On further contemplation, I concede that it is possible that Larry Ellison doesn't have any bollock blocks.

Tillerman said...

Although I used a picture of Larry Ellison on this post I don't expect that Larry was personally involved in adding lead weights to the king posts, or that he even knew about it.

However, it has been reported that Mark Turner, Construction Manager for Oracle, has identified the responsible persons and that they included a member or members of the shore team and at least one member of the sailing team.

Pandabonium said...

Wherever the proverbial buck stops...
As CEO and co-founder of the company whose name is so shamelessly advertised on the boat in question, and the filthiest wealthy - oops I meant fifth wealthiest - human on earth, I'd say "close enough".

Noodle said...

History seems to indicate that given enough pressure, prestige and money, someone will try to get away with cheating. So, how likely is it that there's cheating in Americas Cup? Very! How unlikely is it that cheating would be discovered... Hmmm. Those competitors will probably watch a faster boat very closely...

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