Looks like someone had a bad case of sticker shock.
Which raises another question. If you could Photoshop a sticker out, you could just as easily start with a photo of an old Laser and Photoshop in an image of the new logo without actually having built a new boat.
Exactly. The sticker appears to be the Laser sticker that is placed in that position on all Lasers. It carries the Laser trademarks and the name of the builder. It is essentially a certification that is a legal Laser hull. (There is also an ISAF plaque on the other side of the cockpit rear wall on real Lasers. You can't really see whether that is there or not on this hull.)
So it doesn't appear that the photo is of one of the first new Kirby Sailboats at all. It appears to be of an existing Laser hull that has had the Torch logo added (in real life or by Photoshop.) Not to mention the boat also has what appears to be a 13-year-old Laser sail.
I can't imagine why anyone would do this. As a Kirby Torch Class member I find the whole situation very troubling.
I've never more than glanced at the stickers on my Laser until this Torch stuff all kicked off. I'm only on my 3rd Laser in 24 years and I seem to remember the first one was a sail number under the bow fairlead, the second a coded sailed number under the bow fairlead. Hence neither had the stickers. My 3rd Laser has them both. I spotted the one in the Torch photo and wondered if they had already developed their own sticker set.
I've felt my loyalty shift from ILCA to Kirby in recent weeks but haven't quite felt the desire to join the Torch class yet (I'm not an ILCA or UKLA member either, but let's not go there). I find this photo of a "Torch" a cynical attempt to show a more advanced status than is real. I'd still like to see Kirby get his royalties and the situation move on. But has he gone too far to turn back?
Besides, what idiot would lay a decent hull straight onto a concrete floor?
Panda brings up a good point on the virtual product.
It just seems odd to me that they'd publish a photo like that without making sure there weren't distinguishing features that would give away the fact it might be a Laser hull.
Have you noticed the name on the sail? Scheidt. I really think those photos are not the same on the Torch website Because the sail is VERY DIFFERENT, the boat has a "radil cut" standard sail on the pics I saw. PSA has in their show room an old Laser used by Scheidt on the Sydney OG, maybe those pics come from PSA.
Pictures were published and mailed to KTC members yesterday of what were supposedly Torches both with the Scheidt sail and with the radial cut standard sail. I wrote a separate post about the Scheidt sail. I was almost certain that these pics were taken at PSA and your comment pretty much confirms it Anonymous.
So do you think that at least one of the pictures presented as one of the first new Kirby Torch Sailboats was actually of a 13 year old Laser hull?
If one zooms into the Torch sticker area in photoshop there is an odd pixelation around the actual torch. It seems odd that the ghosts of other pixels would be there in an area that would be clean - unless a Laser insignia was removed.
Am I the only one that is kinda tired of this Torch/Laser/ILCA/Kirby whingefest? I bought a Laser recently to get away from some of the one design dinghy wanking, and seem to have walked into an orgy of unhappiness. None of these folks seem like they'd be much fun to play with.
Have we heard Laser Performance's side of the story? Haven't seen that yet but not looking that hard either. I've heard all kind of nice about Kirby too, and if he's wronged he deserves redress, but damn this smells like a pi$%ing contest to me.
Just want to sail my Laser and cheat the nursing home, and walked into this. Ugh.
I looked again at the photos on the Kirby Torch website, and it looks like those yellow areas aren't the stickers...but they might be tape covering the Laser stickers. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o1LB0QIYiqY/UZOxkgm2AcI/AAAAAAAAAEs/r7-AlV8Zn0s/w1368-h912-no/torch7.jpg
I am hoping that the difference can only be seen in the price and the the 2nd photo shows a boat is a grand or 2 cheaper and replacement parts that cost about 40% less they used too!
I have no doubt it is a brand new hull. However, it's just one on the PSA shop floor with a Torch logo stuck on it. And I'm sure the Scheidt sail is no accident. I'm just wondering if Scheidt himself knows about it. To me, the photo is trying to give the false impresion that the new builders in NA and Europe are making huls. Anyone can stick a Torch logo on an existing hull.
My thoughts: PSA is the only one Laser builder supporting BK, they have Laser hulls ready, people are asking about the Torch like Where's it? I didn't see one yet, so they took one of the hulls, put the 2000 OG Scheidt sail, took the pic and send it around to support BK. Look: The sail: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437894526250592&set=pb.100000901443497.-2207520000.1368738700.&type=3&theater Other thing I've been thinking is: I don't care the name of the boat, I do care for the class, build a boat is easy, make a class is far more difficult, the Torch is not yet a class, no class association in any country, no reconized class by ISAF and I think ISAF will never reconize after that mess. But, maybe non Olympic class doesn't need ISAF, no world cahmapionship? So what? Get rid of all politics from ISAF, form a sailing league, invite people to bring the boat, Torch or Laser and do a championship with thousands boats named Torch No World Championship, what about that? Good sailing.
Anonymous 5:17 PM, Thanks for the link to the picture of that sail in the PSA showroom. That settles it 100%.
I share your concern about the importance of the class and how will we go forward as a class after the dispute between BKI and LP is resolved. I was trying to "game play" in my head today all the various scenarios about how the class (or god forbid - classes) might evolve depending on how the court case is decided. There seem to be a variety of different scenarios. Might have to write a blog post on this question just to clear my head. But I will wait a while because I am sure most of my readers are bored with all the Torch nonsense this week.
Another one clearing the doubts: Look, the same wall behind the pic with the "radial" sail. I'm sure they came from PSA. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=374475255925853&set=pb.100000901443497.-2207520000.1368747560.&type=3&theater If you look all the album, notice those beautiful custom color hulls, I love then, hey BK, could you produce some hulls like those? LOL P.S. I'm one of the bored readers LOL.
Right on torrid. What surprise me is that, up until now, the Kirby/ Global Sailing/ PSA camp has been very deft at the public relations side of this battle for global domination of the Laser market. But the effort this week is very amateur. How did they manage to screw up so bad?
Wow. People have sharp eyes, or maybe just know more what to look for. I stared for a good five minutes (well, or maybe 2) before I gave up and came to the comments.
24 comments:
sticker
Looks like someone had a bad case of sticker shock.
Which raises another question. If you could Photoshop a sticker out, you could just as easily start with a photo of an old Laser and Photoshop in an image of the new logo without actually having built a new boat.
Exactly. The sticker appears to be the Laser sticker that is placed in that position on all Lasers. It carries the Laser trademarks and the name of the builder. It is essentially a certification that is a legal Laser hull. (There is also an ISAF plaque on the other side of the cockpit rear wall on real Lasers. You can't really see whether that is there or not on this hull.)
So it doesn't appear that the photo is of one of the first new Kirby Sailboats at all. It appears to be of an existing Laser hull that has had the Torch logo added (in real life or by Photoshop.) Not to mention the boat also has what appears to be a 13-year-old Laser sail.
I can't imagine why anyone would do this. As a Kirby Torch Class member I find the whole situation very troubling.
The sail also appears to have the new logo and isn't the window different? Is this perhaps the new radial cut std sail?
I've never more than glanced at the stickers on my Laser until this Torch stuff all kicked off. I'm only on my 3rd Laser in 24 years and I seem to remember the first one was a sail number under the bow fairlead, the second a coded sailed number under the bow fairlead. Hence neither had the stickers. My 3rd Laser has them both. I spotted the one in the Torch photo and wondered if they had already developed their own sticker set.
I've felt my loyalty shift from ILCA to Kirby in recent weeks but haven't quite felt the desire to join the Torch class yet (I'm not an ILCA or UKLA member either, but let's not go there). I find this photo of a "Torch" a cynical attempt to show a more advanced status than is real. I'd still like to see Kirby get his royalties and the situation move on. But has he gone too far to turn back?
Besides, what idiot would lay a decent hull straight onto a concrete floor?
R
Touché - which would also be a good name for a Laser knockoff.
Photoshopping the goods makes sense if you happen to be living a virtual life in a virtual world with a virtual product.
Panda brings up a good point on the virtual product.
It just seems odd to me that they'd publish a photo like that without making sure there weren't distinguishing features that would give away the fact it might be a Laser hull.
Have you noticed the name on the sail? Scheidt. I really think those photos are not the same on the Torch website Because the sail is VERY DIFFERENT, the boat has a "radil cut" standard sail on the pics I saw.
PSA has in their show room an old Laser used by Scheidt on the Sydney OG, maybe those pics come from PSA.
Pictures were published and mailed to KTC members yesterday of what were supposedly Torches both with the Scheidt sail and with the radial cut standard sail. I wrote a separate post about the Scheidt sail. I was almost certain that these pics were taken at PSA and your comment pretty much confirms it Anonymous.
So do you think that at least one of the pictures presented as one of the first new Kirby Torch Sailboats was actually of a 13 year old Laser hull?
I also wonder about the yellow stickers on the spars. Are those the standard Laser stickers?
Well spotted. If they are Laser spar stickers then as soon as the KTC webmaster sees this comment they will magically disappear.
If one zooms into the Torch sticker area in photoshop there is an odd pixelation around the actual torch. It seems odd that the ghosts of other pixels would be there in an area that would be clean - unless a Laser insignia was removed.
Am I the only one that is kinda tired of this Torch/Laser/ILCA/Kirby whingefest? I bought a Laser recently to get away from some of the one design dinghy wanking, and seem to have walked into an orgy of unhappiness. None of these folks seem like they'd be much fun to play with.
Have we heard Laser Performance's side of the story? Haven't seen that yet but not looking that hard either. I've heard all kind of nice about Kirby too, and if he's wronged he deserves redress, but damn this smells like a pi$%ing contest to me.
Just want to sail my Laser and cheat the nursing home, and walked into this. Ugh.
I looked again at the photos on the Kirby Torch website, and it looks like those yellow areas aren't the stickers...but they might be tape covering the Laser stickers.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o1LB0QIYiqY/UZOxkgm2AcI/AAAAAAAAAEs/r7-AlV8Zn0s/w1368-h912-no/torch7.jpg
I am hoping that the difference can only be seen in the price and the the 2nd photo shows a boat is a grand or 2 cheaper and replacement parts that cost about 40% less they used too!
Yes. That's the magic "$2000 off" sticker. Definitely.
I have no doubt it is a brand new hull. However, it's just one on the PSA shop floor with a Torch logo stuck on it. And I'm sure the Scheidt sail is no accident. I'm just wondering if Scheidt himself knows about it. To me, the photo is trying to give the false impresion that the new builders in NA and Europe are making huls. Anyone can stick a Torch logo on an existing hull.
My thoughts:
PSA is the only one Laser builder supporting BK, they have Laser hulls ready, people are asking about the Torch like Where's it? I didn't see one yet, so they took one of the hulls, put the 2000 OG Scheidt sail, took the pic and send it around to support BK.
Look: The sail: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437894526250592&set=pb.100000901443497.-2207520000.1368738700.&type=3&theater
Other thing I've been thinking is: I don't care the name of the boat, I do care for the class, build a boat is easy, make a class is far more difficult, the Torch is not yet a class, no class association in any country, no reconized class by ISAF and I think ISAF will never reconize after that mess.
But, maybe non Olympic class doesn't need ISAF, no world cahmapionship? So what? Get rid of all politics from ISAF, form a sailing league, invite people to bring the boat, Torch or Laser and do a championship with thousands boats named Torch No World Championship, what about that?
Good sailing.
P.S. Psa made a mistake not removing the Laser sticker LOL.
Anonymous 5:17 PM, Thanks for the link to the picture of that sail in the PSA showroom. That settles it 100%.
I share your concern about the importance of the class and how will we go forward as a class after the dispute between BKI and LP is resolved. I was trying to "game play" in my head today all the various scenarios about how the class (or god forbid - classes) might evolve depending on how the court case is decided. There seem to be a variety of different scenarios. Might have to write a blog post on this question just to clear my head. But I will wait a while because I am sure most of my readers are bored with all the Torch nonsense this week.
Another one clearing the doubts: Look, the same wall behind the pic with the "radial" sail. I'm sure they came from PSA.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=374475255925853&set=pb.100000901443497.-2207520000.1368747560.&type=3&theater
If you look all the album, notice those beautiful custom color hulls, I love then, hey BK, could you produce some hulls like those? LOL
P.S. I'm one of the bored readers LOL.
Yes, a very Australian wall. And very Australian eucalyptus leaves on the floor.
And yeah - let's get back to those gorgeous hull colors. White is boring.
When I am old I want to sail a purple Laser.
Right on torrid. What surprise me is that, up until now, the Kirby/ Global Sailing/ PSA camp has been very deft at the public relations side of this battle for global domination of the Laser market. But the effort this week is very amateur. How did they manage to screw up so bad?
Wow. People have sharp eyes, or maybe just know more what to look for. I stared for a good five minutes (well, or maybe 2) before I gave up and came to the comments.
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